my concern is the traps. every time i read about these things someone is saying the traps are lossy or they had one fail on them or whatever. but then i also see guys running them with decent results on 20 and 15. i dunno, maybe im overthinking it. has anyone actually done a side by side kind of comparison or switched from one to the other and noticed a real difference? the dipole is definitely better on 40 i think just from listening but hard to say for sure without some controlled test which obviously im not doing in my backyard

the dipole option is pretty obvious — cut it to length, throw it up inverted-V style from a 35ft push-up mast i already have, call it done. probably around 66ft total. the thing is a neighbor has a vertical, one of those trap verticals, and he swears by it for DX. says the low angle radiation makes all the difference. but ive read enough to know a vertical at ground level with bad radials is basically a dummy load so im skeptical.

i mostly do casual ragchews and a little DX when something interesting pops up, not a serious contester or anything. whats the actual real world difference gonna be for someone like me? is the dipole just the smarter choice here or am i missing something about the vertical that would change my mind

ive checked the feedline connections and they look fine, coax is the same run of LMR-400 i had before, maybe 75ft of it going back to the shack. the far end of the dipole is lower than it used to be, probably only about 15ft off the ground at the drooping end, and im wondering if thats whats killing me. or maybe the angle of the sloper is doing something weird with the impedance? i dont have an antenna analyzer right now, borrowed one before and thats how i got the original tune. just using the rig's built in meter.

any thoughts before i climb back up there and start messing with lengths again

been thinking about putting up a vertical, probably something like a trap vertical or maybe just a dedicated 40m quarter wave with a decent radial field. read a bunch about how verticals have lower takeoff angles which should help with dx but then you hear just as many guys saying their dipole blows away their vertical and im going back and forth on this. part of the problem is i dont have a lot of room to lay down a good radial field either, maybe 20-25 radials at 16 feet each which i know isnt textbook.

anybody actually done a real a/b comparison on 40m between these two? not looking for theoretical stuff, just what you actually heard on the band.

my dipole is kind of an inverted V setup, apex at 25ft, ends coming down to about 8ft off the ground. i can work europe from the midwest pretty regularly when conditions are decent but i feel like im leaving contacts on the table, especially on the long path stuff. neighbor two streets over has a big vertical with a radial field and he says he hears things i never do

anyone actually done a side by side comparison or switched from one to the other and noticed a real world difference? not asking about theoretical dB numbers just actual on air experience. wondering if the ground here would even support a decent vertical, its pretty clay heavy soil

thing is, 25 feet isnt great for a dipole on 40, i know that, you really want it closer to a half wave up which would be like 66 feet or something ridiculous i cant do in my yard. but i also dont really want to bury 60 radials. is the vertical actually going to outperform what i have for dx or is he kind of overselling it. i feel like my dipole even at that height does okay and im not sure the radial work is worth the payoff unless im totally wrong about this

my main interest is ragchewing on 40 in the evenings, some DX would be nice but its not the primary thing. i live in a pretty average suburban lot so salt marsh radial fields arent exactly an option, i was thinking maybe 16 to 24 radials at whatever length i can fit. anyone actually done a back to back comparison on 40m with these two setups or am i just spinning my wheels overthinking it

i know the theory says a dipole at a quarter wave height is great for dx but 25 feet on 40m is nowhere near that obviously. the vertical with radials theoretically has a lower takeoff angle but im surrounded by houses and fences and im not sure how much that matters. i mostly do general ragchewing and some casual contesting, not chasing rare dx or anything serious.

anyone run a comparable setup and have an opinion? i feel like ive read enough antenna modeling forums that im now more confused than when i started.

the inverted V should theoretically be better or at least comparable right? lower angle for DX maybe not but for domestic stuff it should do okay. im in a suburban lot so the vertical was always kind of squeezed in next to the fence anyway. ive checked connections at the feedpoint, coax looks good, balun is a homebrew 1:1 choke type wound on a FT240-43. not sure what else to check. maybe the angle of the legs? or is 35 feet just not high enough for a real low angle radiation pattern on 40.

anybody run both and have a feel for how they compare

i was planning on putting up a half wave dipole for 40m, inverted vee style, fed at about 35 feet from one of those trees. the ends would slope down toward the corners of the yard. the math works out okay i think but the southeast leg would be running kind of toward the neighbors house and end up only like 8 feet off the ground near the fence.

so now im second guessing and wondering if a vertical with a decent radial field would actually outperform that on low angles — like for working dx on 40. ive read a ton of conflicting stuff. some people say a low dipole is basically a cloud warmer and useless for dx, others say its fine. ive got access to a MFJ antenna analyzer and an nec2 modeling program but honestly i havent sat down and actually modeled it yet which i should probably just do.

anyone run both and have a real opinion? not looking for a definitive answer just want to hear what people actually experienced

a guy at the club keeps telling me to put up a vertical with radials and itll dramatically improve my low angle radiation for dx. which makes sense on paper. but ive also read that a dipole at low heights actually has a pretty high takeoff angle so maybe thats my problem more than the antenna type itself. if i could get it to 50 feet would that be worth more than switching to a vertical at ground level with a decent radial field.

i dont have a ton of space for radials anyway, yard is maybe 60x80 feet. just trying to figure out what the smart move is here before i spend money or time on something that wont actually help.

a buddy of mine keeps telling me to just put up a dipole, says the low angle radiation on the vertical is worth it for dx but i mean im not really chasing dx that hard, mostly ragchew and some local nets. he also said something about the vertical needing a better radial system which i never really got around to doing properly, theres maybe 4 radials under it right now.

anyway the question is basically — is the noise difference between a dipole and a vertical actually that noticeable or is he just a dipole guy and kinda biased toward them. and if i do the dipole, inverted V probably given the space, does 80 feet of backyard give me enough for 40m half wave

someone at the club meeting suggested a vertical with radials would give me better low angle radiation and help with DX. that makes sense to me in theory but then i also read that a dipole at low heights is more of a cloud warmer anyway so maybe i just need to get it higher. my lot isnt huge so getting it much above 30 feet is going to be tough without a real tower situation which im not ready for financially.

does the vertical actually make that big a difference or is 25 feet just always going to be a compromise on 40m regardless of antenna type

The theory suggests that a generous radial system can perform as well as a dipole, especially for DX work with low radiation angles. The radials represent half of the antenna's performance, essentially acting as the other half of a dipole turned 90 degrees. Anyone made the switch from ground to elevated radials and noticed significant changes in signal reports or noise floor?

my lot is small-ish, maybe 80x120 feet, and the dipole is strung between a tree and my garage roughly NE/SW which i know isnt ideal for everything. i keep looking at verticals thinking maybe the lower angle of radiation would help me work more DX but then i read all this stuff about ground radials and now im nervous about committing to a big ground radial system. been digging through the ARRL antenna book but honestly some of that math goes over my head after a while.

anyone made this switch and actually noticed a real difference or is it one of those things where you spend a lot of money and effort and end up roughly where you started

anyway wondering if anyone has done a real side by side or has opinions on this. i know the usual answer is "it depends" but im trying to nail down something more specific. my lot is maybe 60x120 so i have some room but not a ton. could probably get the dipole higher if thats the real issue.

the thing is ive read so many contradictory things. one guy says verticals are great for DX because of the low angle radiation, another guy says theyre noise magnets and his dipole at 25 feet blows away his vertical. i get that ground radials matter a lot for verticals but i dont have a way to bury a ton of them, maybe i could lay them on the ground under the grass. would a vertical with like 16 surface radials actually be competitive or am i just gonna be disappointed

mainly working 40 and maybe some 20m, not trying to win contests just ragchew and occasional DX when the band opens up. running about 100w from an IC-7300.

i did read somewhere that the inverted V has a slightly higher angle of radiation which isnt great for DX but honestly most of what i work is domestic stuff, some ragchews into canada and the caribbean. so maybe it doesnt matter that much for what im actually doing. the SWR is pretty flat across most of the band with a 1:1 choke balun at the feedpoint which surprised me a bit when i first put it up.

anyone actually done a side by side comparison or have some real world experience with this? not looking for antenna modeling software answers, i can run EZNEC myself, more curious what people actually noticed on the air

a buddy of mine keeps telling me to just put up a vertical with a decent radial field and call it a day. says his 40m vertical with like 16 radials walks all over his old dipole for DX. but i dont know, ive read a lot of conflicting stuff about ground losses eating up vertical efficiency unless you really go nuts with the radials, like 60+ to get it close to ideal.

my yard situation is not great — suburban lot, maybe 60x100 feet, so a full size 40m vertical would need the radials crammed in pretty tight. wondering if anyone has actually done a real comparison on the same band with similar conditions, not just theoretical stuff from the antenna handbook

started with the standard approach, cut three dipoles for each band and hung them all from the same center insulator fanned out at maybe 30 degrees or so between each element. the 40m one is about 66 feet total, 20m around 33, and i cut the 15m one a bit long intentionally to tune it down

first issue was the feedpoint — i was using a really cheap SO-239 chassis mount and the solder joint let go after the first rainstorm. switched to a proper weatherproofed center insulator i got from a local club member and that fixed the mechanical side of things

SWR on 40 came in nice, around 1.4:1 at the bottom of the band where i mostly operate. 20m was trickier because the elements from 40 were interacting and i ended up having to spread the fan angle a bit more to get it below 2:1 across the whole band. 15m honestly just kinda worked, maybe got lucky with the cut length

feeding it all with RG-8X through a 1:1 choke balun wound on a FT-240-43 toroid, about 10 turns. common mode noise dropped noticeably after adding that, which honestly surprised me a bit even though i knew it should help

overall pretty happy with it. not a beam obviously but for a wire antenna its been solid on 20m into europe in the evenings. anyone else run a fan dipole and have tips on reducing the inter-element interaction on the middle bands

the thing is ive read all the stuff about verticals needing a good radial system to be worth anything, and my soil out here in the midwest is supposedly decent but not amazing. i laid down 16 radials when i put up a buddipole experiment a while back and it seemed alright but nothing blew me away. a buddy of mine (kd9 something, cant remember his suffix) swears by his trap vertical for 40 and 80 and says he works eu regularly with it but hes also got like 32 radials buried.

basically asking if anyone has actually done a real side by side comparison, like switching between the two antennas on the same band same conditions. not looking for antenna modeler output, ive seen the nec plots. just real world impressions from people who have actually tried both.

the question is basically whether to build a half wave dipole and just string it between the house and the big oak tree in the back, or go with a proper quarter wave vertical with some radials. ive read a bunch of stuff saying verticals are better for dx because of the low angle radiation but then other guys are saying a dipole up 35 feet is going to outperform a vertical in most situations. at 40m 35 feet is not that high obviously, only like a third of a wavelength, so im not sure the dipole would have that great a low angle component anyway.

current setup is a ts-590sg into the existing thing. just trying to figure out what makes sense before i spend a weekend building something.

the problem is my lot is pretty narrow so getting both ends up high enough for a true flat top is kind of a pain. i could probably manage 25 feet on one end tied off to the fence and maybe 28 on the other end going to the shed. so not exactly flat but closer than what i have now. my current feedpoint is at 35 so the ends of the inverted V are drooping down to maybe 10-12 feet above ground.

is the difference actually noticeable in practice or is this one of those things thats like 2dB on paper and you'd never hear it in a real qso? genuinely curious if anyone has done a side by side or switched between the two setups.

been thinking about trying a vertical instead, maybe something like a trap vertical or just a homebrew quarter wave with a decent radial field. the idea being i could mount it out back further from the house and maybe get a lower angle of radiation for DX which would be a bonus. but i keep reading conflicting stuff — some guys swear their vertical is noisier than a dipole, others say the opposite. im guessing a lot of it is site-specific but curious what people here have actually experienced going from one to the other on 40.

also not sure how many radials is actually enough. ive seen everything from 4 to 120 mentioned and obviously 120 isnt happening in my yard but whats a realistic number before you hit diminishing returns for a typical suburban lot.